Welcome back to The Nerd Blitz Typecast!
Join me as I continue to celebrate the launch of The Nerd Blitz Conversations: The First 10 Years with another fun chat!
For this third outting in this revival, I welcome SpiderScooby back to chat about some super fun times…get it, cause this one is Superman focused?
Anywhooo, let’s jump into it!
Doom: This time out the gate, we’re gonna be talkin’ cape shit, specifically of the Superman family variety.
So, let’s just dive in, what did you think of last year’s Superman flick?
SpiderScooby: I loved it. After the Snyder shit, it was nice to have a Superman that was hopeful again. I thought David Corenswet was an excellent Superman, as was Nicholas Hoult as Lex. And of course we have to mention Krypto.
Doom: Krypto was a heartbreaker for me, for many reasons, but I loved him so damn much.
Were you at all worried going in?
I know a lot of people were a bit bitchy about the suit, but I loved it from the jump.
SpiderScooby: Not at all. They probably could’ve picked a better image to reveal it, but I never had a problem with the suit.
Doom: I definitely was a bit scared, I’m general, just because we’d been so burned by so much terrible Superman stuff in the past 10 years or so leading up to it.
And I’ve also had issues with a lot of Gunn’s previous works.
You had none of that?
SpiderScooby: Not really. I enjoyed the Guardians movies so I was fine with him taking over. If anything, he gave it a little more flavor compared to Snyder’s cold take.
Doom: The less said about that verse the better.
Did you watch Superman & Lois at all?
SpiderScooby: Superman & Lois was fantastic. I didn’t necessarily care about the family drama stuff. But as a Superman show it is amazing.
Doom: Yeah, I could have done without the kids and their annoying bullshit, no doubt.
Did that start turning the Superman tide for you a bit after the unmentionable movies?
It sure as hell did for me. Haha
SpiderScooby: I don’t think those movies ruined it enough for me to feel that way, haha. I always try to go into a new interpretation with an open mind and not judge it based on what came before.
Doom: No, I get that. But for me, everything Superman related that was coming out, post-Smallville, was just a disappointment. And not just Superman, it was most of the DC stuff.
I really lost all interest in the animated movies, especially with the over reliance on Batman and the mediocre, at best, shit they were putting out. I mean, somehow, they fucked up a Killing Joke movie with Conroy & Hamill. That’s a major problem, ya know?
SpiderScooby: For me, it’s more of a mixed bag. I liked some of the CW stuff. Some of
the DCAMU movies are decent. But they definitely stumbled more than a few times. The Killing Joke was terrible like you said. The Tommorowverse movies just kinda fizzled out. Batman & Harley Quinn…exists. But my main issue with DC in that decade is that they were trying to be edgy when they didn’t need to. Like, did we really need an ultra-violent Harley Quinn show? Or did Arrow have to go so dark? When Smallville went dark for seasons 8 & 9, it hit different because it wasn’t trying to be something it wasn’t.
Doom: Yeah, they weren’t even being a counterpoint to Marvel’s brightness at that point either, because Marvel was vacillating between dark and light. It was just darkness for darkness sake.
SpiderScooby: Just look at the Marvel Netflix shows. That shit went hard, so they knew how to make different things for different audiences. With DC, it just felt like “More Edge! More Edge! Fuck Batman! More Edge!”
Did you see Justice League Dark: Apokolips War? That movie is like Infinity War, but all the characters die in the most brutal, bloody ways possible.
Doom: Exactly. Marvel was like fuckin’ UHF, they got it all.
Honestly, I couldn’t tell you what the last DC Animated flick I was that I watched. I wanna say it was Batman & Harley or Gotham By Gaslight?
The idea of that shared universe just did fuck all for me.
I think a day may come where I’ll watch them all, but that day is far far off.
SpiderScooby: The Death of Superman two-parter was probably the best out of those movies, simply because it adapted the story better than Superman Doomsday.
Doom: I have heard that was pretty good. Who voiced Superman in that?
Also, what was your first exposure to the character?
SpiderScooby: That was Jerry O’Connell.
I wanna say it was the Christopher Reeve films, that’s where my love for the character really took off. But I might have seen the Fleischer cartoons before then.
Doom: How did he do for an extended period?
Oh, no shit?
Those Fleischer toons are fuckin’ stunning to look at, even now.
SpiderScooby: He’s fine. He’s not my favorite or anything, but he does okay.
Also the inspiration for B:TAS!
Doom: Speaking of inspiration, did you see the original heavily Fleischer inspired designs for Superman: The Animated Series? I’ve seen them circulating a lot recently around the world wide web, they look fuckin’ amazin’.
SpiderScooby: I just looked them up, and that’s amazing!
Doom: I’m glad we got what we did, but that’s just insanely cool.
I would have loved for Timm to do a movie in that style.
So, from the Fleischer’s on, were you hooked?
SpiderScooby: It was the Reeve flicks that got me hooked. My memory is a bit fuzzy before then. I knew who Superman was before I watched those movies. I know I had watched Superman content before then. But my love really started with there.
Doom: On that note, where did you land on Superman Returns?
For folks that may not know, that was designed as a sequel to Superman II, so did that feel similar to you?
SpiderScooby: At the time, I enjoyed it. Looking back at it now? It’s kinda boring. The tone is too dreary. The color palette is too muted. It had one good action scene in the middle, but the ending is a letdown.
I do like Brandon Routh though.
Doom: Yeah, the rusty look of that flick always was a bit offputting to me. Routh was great, given what he had to do.
I think it had some good ideas, and it sounded like the sequel they intended was gonna be better, but that sadly never materialized.
So, how old were you when you saw the Chris Reeve flicks for the first time?
SpiderScooby: probably 10 or 11. It was around the same time I discovered Batman 66, which I also love. But I know you’re not the biggest fan of.
Doom: Yeah, I discovered 66 at an age where I had B:TAS & S:TAS and it just doesn’t do it for me.
I got the movie when it hit DVD and tried to give it another try and…it just didn’t go well…
Did you ever watch any of the George Reeves show or the Superboy show?
SpiderScooby: I don’t think anything can compare to Batman TAS, but they’re two very different sides of the Batman coin. I think The Animated Series might be my first memory of Batman, because I remembered when they premiered it in prime time. I also had the Happy Meal toys.
The 66 movie was all us fans had for the longest time…and I don’t love it as much as the series. It’s fine. It’s kinda boring in my opinion. But then again I haven’t watched it in awhile.
I watched the George Reeves
show along with Batman 66 on TV Land (remember TV Land?). I remember liking it, but I definitely preferred Batman.
Doom: Yeah, The Animated Series and DC/WBs over-reliance on Batman have really turned me against Batman in general. The character got so overused that I find myself almost repulsed by him now.
Kinda like what my dad did with M*A*S*H.
I think my first memory of Batman is watching 89 at my grandparent’s lake cabin in like 93 or 94. Obviously I would have been watching B:TAS at that point too, but that just stands out so vividly.
How about the Superboy show?
SpiderScooby: I still love the character, but I get where you’re coming from.
Never watched it. Is it any good?
Doom: Yeah, I dig the character still, but I need a break from the oversaturation.
I think I’ve seen maybe three episodes, I can’t say it’s memorable. Haha
How about Lois & Clark?
I grew up watching that, even though it wasn’t really aimed at me/us.
SpiderScooby: Lois & Clark was good. Taking a more romantic angle was interesting even though it’s not really my thing. And Dean Cain and Terry Hatcher had good chemistry.
I have not seen the later seasons. I hear it gets weird.
Doom: Yeah, and it has that comforting 90s cornball feel that I love, like 90s Trek has. The hazy look, the stories are over the top but not completely ridiculous, plus Bruce Campbell shows up a few times.
The latter seasons of Lois & Clark?
I don’t remember it getting any weirder than the first two seasons. I know it ended on a cliffhanger.
SpiderScooby: Does he?? I may have to do a rewatch haha.
Yeah, there’s like a whole subplot where Lois is replaced by a clone created by Lex using frog DNA.
Doom: Yeah, I think he plays Bill Church Jr in like three episodes or something. It’s pretty damn fun.
No shit!?
I don’t remember that at all. Lol
So, what has sustained your love of the character for all of these years?
SpiderScooby: Well, there was this show on The WB. I doubt you’ve heard of it, didn’t last very long. Small something? Small town?
Doom: Oh, Tiny Town!? I didn’t know you watched that too!
SpiderScooby; Of course I’m talking about Dawson’s Creek /s
In all seriousness, I was obsessed with Smallville back in the day. I watched that show religiously. So I was so happy to find out you were a fan as well. We even started watching around the same time.
Doom: No shit? Season 4?
Yeah, that show really hit me in the right spot at the right time and exploded my Superman love to a whole new level. Because, other than the comics, it was kinda dead for a while after TAS and Lois & Clark.
SpiderScooby: Season 4 was the first season I watched live. I had started watching the reruns on ABC / Fox Family that summer. I might’ve watched the S3 finale live because I remember that cliffhanger.
I know Season 4 has its issues, but I do have a soft spot for it.
Doom: I mean, name me the show that is absolutely 100% perfect. I can’t think of a single one.
And a lot of issues people have with that and the next season all feel nitpicky. Like the witch shit? Witch’s exist in DC. Is it a bit convenient that one of them is an ancestor of Lana? Sure. But the rest makes sense.
It’s not until Season 6, with the Lex & Lana soap opera drama that I start getting a bit antsy.
For my money, that show has seven great seasons, two good seasons, and then…well, then you have season 8.
*shivers*
I just love the shit they added to the mythos too, particularly Smallville it self being chosen by Jor-El. Stroke of genius, that.
SpiderScooby: Season 5 is one of my favorites! I loved what they did with Brainiac that season. The Lex and Lana stuff in Season 6 was absolute cringe. I feel like they kept Lana around for way too long. By that point it felt like they didn’t know what to do with her.
Doom: Oh, let’s not get started on Lana. Kristen Kruek seems genuinely wonderful, but the writers of that show couldn’t write her to be a bigger fuckin’ asshole if they tried.
6 and 7 are the seasons I think are just good, and 7 is only downgraded because the writer’s strike fucked it. They were forced into a terrible start stop cycle because they were waiting for the strike to be called at any second. They would cruise well for a couple weeks, then HOLY SHIT LORE DUMP CAUSE THE STRIKE IS HAPPENING TOMORR…nevermind, just go about business as usua…IT’S HAPPENING, DUMP ALL THE INFO CAUSE WE GOTTA SHUT THIS BITCH DOWN!!! nah, all’s good. It makes it feel insane.
And that season had so much potential with all of the Phantom Zone stuff and, the entire reason we wanted to do this this month, the introduction of Supergirl!
SpiderScooby: Same with Erica Durance. She’s wonderful as Lois, but often times she felt like a third wheel. It wasn’t until Season 8 that she really came into her own.
That’s an apt description of S7, lol. Some good ideas and a few good episodes, but overall mediocre. Kara was the best thing about it. Shame we didn’t get more of her.
Doom: Yeah, a lot of times Lois was just there to make Clark jealous.
I was so disappointed we only got Kara back for like one or 2 episodes after that season, she would have rocked in the finale.
So, what is your history with Supergirl?
How much do you know about her?
Cause I know we both grew up in a time where she wasn’t around much.
SpiderScooby: Honestly? Not much. I still haven’t watched the 80s film. I just know it’s reputation. Smallville’s version is probably the one I’m most familiar with. I’ve also been watching the CW series, which I’ve been enjoying.
Doom: The 80s one is…not good, but the director of it was a Smallville director!
The Smallville version is probably the most accurate version, from what I’ve seen.
How is that show?
I watched about half of the pilot and kinda checked out.
What about the Superman TAS version?
SpiderScooby: Jeannot Szwarc! And 14 episodes no less!
It gets better. But if you don’t like the Arrowverse shows, it’s probably not gonna improve for you.
The DCAU version kicks ass!
Doom: Yes! And I think he did some big eps too!
Yeah, the only thing that was Arrowverse adjacent that I dug was Superman & Lois. The rest of those shows didn’t work for me. And that kinda makes me sad cause I know I’m missing out on a lot of fun stuff, but I just couldn’t take it.
The DCAU version was my introduction to the character, and I’ve come to realize it doesn’t have much basis in the comics. That was kinda mind blowing for me.
SpiderScooby: Episode 200 and Perry are stand outs.
Was she radically different in the DCAU? I admit I know nothing about her in the comics.
Doom: Oh yeah, he did do Homecoming!
Yeah, cause in the comics she was more like Smallville, where she came to earth delayed. So she was used to baby Kal. In TAS, they aren’t even blood related, he found her in a stasis tube and brought her to Earth.
From what I’ve read, they did it that way because it was post-Crisis, she was dead, and DC didn’t really wanna use her. But Bruce Timm did wanna use her, so he just made some shit up. It’s pretty cool, but her intro isn’t the best ep of the series.
I think Jeph Loeb reintroduced her in the arc that they made into that Superman/Batman: Apocalypse DTV movie.
SpiderScooby: I don’t think I ever realized they weren’t blood related in the show. But her first episode isn’t my favorite either.
Did you like that movie? I remember it and Public Enemies being fun.
Doom: Yeah, I think it was on Argo that he found her.
I need to rewatch it. When they came out, I loved Public Enemies but hated Apocalypse. I just reread the comic and really dug it, so I wonder if that would change how I feel now.
SpiderScooby: I remember Public Enemies being better despite being on the short side.
On a related note, I know you’re a big fan of Lobo. What do you think of Jason Momoa playing him and what’s your favorite version of the character? I think he appeared in that Krypton show I never watched.
Doom: Yeah, plus it was the first time we had Kevin, Tim, and Clancy back together, so it was kind of a bigger deal too.
It think the fact that they ever considered him for anything other Lobo is fucking ridiculous. I’ve never seen somebody that more looks like a character than Momoa looks like Lobo. And he’s a huge Lobo fan too, so I know he’s not gonna allow them to fuck it up.
As for favorite version? That DCU Last Sons novel is my favorite appearance, no doubt. I love his Superman: TAS eps too. There was also this four issue mini in like 1990, simply titled Lobo, that was pretty fuckin’ good.
I just love how balls out fuckin’ goofy he is, mocking the uber manly characters of the day like Punisher and shit.
That Krypton show looked good to me, always wanted to see it. Every once in a while I see it on sale, but I never have the cash for it when it is.
Where do you land on the Main Man?
SpiderScooby; Outside of The Animated Series, I don’t have any experience with Lobo. I know he was in an episode or two of Krypton, but that’s about it.
Doom: Yeah, those were good.
Maybe not the best version of him, but a good intro.
Let’s jump ahead, as we’re finishing this out, Supergirl has come and gone. I haven’t seen it since the theater, so it’s a bit fuzzy now, but did you end up seeing it? What did you think?
SpiderScooby: I just finished watching it and initial reaction? It’s fine. Superman was a much more enjoyable film. I’m not sure why critics had such a hate boner for it though. It’s not the disaster they made it out to be. My two biggest gripes are a) not enough screen time for Lobo and b) they took out Krypto for most of the movie.
Doom: Yeah, I agree with that.
Like I said in our .5 ep, you have one side acting like it’s the greatest movie of all time. It’s not.
You have the other side acting like it’s the worst piece of shit that’s ever been made. It 100% definitely is not that. Not by a fuckin’ long shot.
Yeah, I don’t want or need another movie with Krypto hurt, kidnapped, or otherwise taken off the board after that. I’m good on that front, let’s move on.
Lobo was great, his return scene at the end was a bit awkward, but I’d love to see more of him.
The whole reaction to that movie was just a big disappointment for me. It did not deserve to be one of the lowest grossing comic movies ever made.
SpiderScooby: I said it before, but Jason Momoa should have been playing Lobo from the start. He was born to play that character. But he just didn’t have the screen presence.
Yeah, I’ve seen The Marvels. This is so much better.
Doom: Yeah, totally.
Did anything stick out about that flick for you?
Cause the more I’ve thought about it the more I wish she had worn the suit through more of the flick.
SpiderScooby: That would have been nice. I dig the suit.
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